Crypto, the IRS, and the Hidden Tax Storm Ahead with Janna Scott

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The Compassionate Capitalist
Show empowers entrepreneurs and

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investors alike to create wealth
with passion and purpose.

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Join Karen Rands, a best selling
author, for insights on Angel

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investing, crowdfunding,
business growth, and wealth

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creation.
As a seasoned entrepreneur and

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investor herself, Karen engages
in dynamic conversations with

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industry leaders, successful
entrepreneurs, seasoned Angel

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investors, and venture
capitalists as they share their

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proven strategies and lessons
learned.

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Once you listen, you will
understand why this podcast is

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ranked in the top 2 1/2%
globally.

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Subscribe and share and be a
catalyst for the compassionate

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capitalist movement.
Just go get it up and go in the

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back.
And you must keep an open mind

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and you try your best just to
leave your tracks and do not

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fall too far behind.
Regret is for the Prince of

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heart.
In the end, it's all the same.

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Take what the wise I've got to
in part.

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These are the principles of the
game.

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The principles of the game.
Oh, these are the principles of

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the game.
Welcome to the compassionate

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capitalist show.
Of course, this is Karen Rand.

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And before we get started, I
have a big announcement.

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If you haven't heard it already,
you're not following me on

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social media or whatever.
The newest book inside secrets

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to crowdfund investing follow
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See how a new generation builds
wealth with purpose, passion and

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profit is out and available on
Audible and paperback hardback

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coming and I mean I'm sorry,
it's on ebook, Kindle, paperback

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hardbook and audible is coming
and in the first two weeks is

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number one for new releases in
business investing crowdfund So

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very excited about that.
You can go all the books are up

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under Amazon under my name,
Karen Rand or even inside

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secrets.
Look for that as part of the

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title and you'll get them all.
So and more's to come on that,

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but I wanted to just throw,
throw that in there today.

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We're I've done a few podcasts
in the last month or so about

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crypto and blockchain and things
like that.

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And as we are rounding out the
end of the going into Q4

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quarterly taxes, all that other
kind of stuff that business

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owners think about, investors
have to think about.

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It is important because it's
always changing to think about

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the currency because crypto is a
currency there.

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And when you make money on it,
just like stocks or anything

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else, there's taxes to be paid.
And sometimes people don't

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really think about it quite the
way they did.

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And they used to not be a lot of
rules.

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Now there's a lot of rules.
And so today we're going to talk

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about how crypto investors and
CPA's commonly trip the IRS

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audit triggers, the number one
mistake most crypto users make

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at tax time, and how my guest's
company, Defy Tax is redefining

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audit readiness through real
time blockchain data.

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My guest today, Janice Scott is
the founder and a crypto tax

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expert at her company Defy Tax,
and it is a powerhouse in the

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world of crypto tax compliance.
Jenna is excellent at breaking

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down the complex topics in a way
that's accessible to founders,

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CPA's and everyday crypto users
alike.

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So she's worked directly with.
Here's a key thing.

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There's a lot of people out
there that will say they know

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how to do stuff, but if they
are, they are they really into

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the mechanisms of the
organizations and the entities

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that actually dictate what the
policy is, are the ones that can

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come and like put, you know, the
handcuffs on you or fine you or

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any of that kind of stuff.
So Jenna has worked directly

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with IRS and the SEC to build
Defy Tax to bring clarity,

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automation and audit readiness
to the chaos of crypto

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reporting.
And her latest innovation,

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direct blockchain data
integration, helps users stay

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ahead of constantly shifting
regulations.

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And she is going to tell us all
about how that works.

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I don't want to steal her
Thunder.

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So I'm just going to say welcome
to the Compassionate Capitalist

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Show Ghana.
Great to have you here today.

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Nice to be here, Karen.
Thank you so much yes, that was

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a good intro I'm.
Sorry, go ahead.

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No, that was a good intro.
I love it.

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I got to.
I got to tell other people to

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keep that going.
I like it.

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Yeah, yeah.
So, and, and for those who are

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listening, she thinks this
podcast, I'm going to give my

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myself a plug.
And you?

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The listeners are so important.
It is a deadline day.

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And whenever this is actually
going to go live, today is a

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deadline day in the IRS world.
And here she is talking to you.

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So, you know, stay tuned for the
entire show.

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I'm shaking my finger at you.
You're not you're not watching

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the video.
So all right, so let's get into

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it a little bit.
First of all, because I think

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you had a fascinating story from
when we talked before.

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How did you?
Because this is a sort of

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uncharted territory for a lot of
people.

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A whole lot of tax people,
accountants, all those kind of

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people have no idea about this
stuff.

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And that's one of the your
triggers you talked about,

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right?
So how did you decide that this

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was something that you want to
put the stake in the ground to

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become an expert in and and talk
a little bit about your journey

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of how you got here today?
Yeah, it was accidental.

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So I, I didn't mean to and and I
listen, I regret it every day.

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I regret it every day.
So I, you know, I've been in

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accounting for, for 16 years
plus and, and I worked in, you

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know, public accounting, I call
it the real world and then the

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government.
And then I worked, worked for

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the government.
I worked my way up and

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eventually I was like, you know,
this is just not for me.

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I can do a lot more good in the
real world.

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And so I went back into the real
world and I said, OK, you know,

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I opened up a tax accounting
firm.

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I did a lot of advising and I
had clients and then I had a

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client approached me in 21 who
goes, well, so how do I report

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my crypto?
And you know, I could smack

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myself because I had crypto, not
a lot, but a little bit.

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And I never thought of it.
I don't know why it doesn't

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cross my mind.
So I was like, well, yeah,

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that's that's something I should
probably figure out.

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So I went on the rabbit hole
for, you know, about a year.

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Well, initially I went and I, I
googled because, you know,

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Google, I said, well, what's out
there for crypto taxes?

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And I found I came across about
14 products at that time.

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Now there's a little bit more
than that.

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Now, some disappeared, the new
came up, but there were about 14

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and, and I picked the, the first
two I came across and I said,

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well, I have my little, my
little Coinbase wallet here

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that, you know, at that point
had about 300 transactions over

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a period of five years.
Everybody in crypto knows that's

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nothing.
But I connected it and and I

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paid their fee to run, you know,
for my taxes and I connected to

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the 1st 2:00 and then I was like
surprised because I looked at my

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17 and 18 and 19 and 20 and 21
reports that they generated.

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And like I said in my, my
transactional history was

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literally buy, sell, trade,
sell.

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You know, it was nothing.
There was no, nothing bad.

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I mean, 300 transactions.
There's nothing in the crypto

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world.
So imagine my surprise when I

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look at the reports for for
those five years and every and,

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and they differed to different
products and they were, I mean

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they were night and day.
They weren't a couple dollars

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off.
They were 35 to 100 and 2020%

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different between the years.
Let me just clarify.

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So you had two different tools
that you were using to see what

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they came up with.
So like somebody that might go

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and do TurboTax or something
like that, but something that

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involves imagine.
Using like TurboTax and H&R

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Block and you input your your
tax documents and one says you

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owe $5000, the other one says
you're getting a refund of

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$12,000, right?
Imagine that, but for crypto

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taxes on, you know, on and that
makes no sense because you know,

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2 + 2 is 4 OK, right.
Buy, you know, a cell and and

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those, those products also
pulled it directly from from,

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from the blockchain from
Coinbase.

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So they pulled it directly.
So I was like, huh, well, that's

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an issue.
And and that's when I went down

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the rabbit hole and I went and
to all the other 14 products.

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I did the other 12 products and
I ran my data through them and I

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was expecting that at least one
of them matched another and they

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didn't, none of them matched.
And the variances literally were

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35 to 120% between all these
products.

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And you know, I can excuse a
couple dollars or a few percent.

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Write a margin of error 555 up,
five down, you know, but this

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was insane.
I mean, and I, I remember

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sitting there and, you know, of
course I did that at 3:00 in the

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morning after a lot of coffee
and I was just sitting there and

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I just like, well, this sucks.
What now?

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And so I was like, how do I
solve this?

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How do I figure out who is
right, if any?

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And so I started downloading
from all the products, the data

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SCSV files, their data with
their, with their, you know,

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capital gains and everything.
And I went through that and then

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I said, no, I need to have
something different.

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So I went and had and got an API
bill that will let me pull my

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data directly from the
blockchain as well to see the

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raw data.
Because going into Coinbase,

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what I realized very quickly is
if I pull a CSV file, it is not

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accurate, it's missing, it's
missing data, it doesn't give

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you the full picture.
And So what I did as I build it

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myself and I pulled the raw data
myself from the blockchain and

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that's when I sat down, I read
through the IRS codes and I read

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through, you know, publications,
you know, by universities and

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everything.
And then then my own knowledge

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regarding, you know, assets,
stocks, etcetera.

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And, and I sat down for a couple
months and I went back and forth

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again, 300 transactions is not a
lot, but it is time consuming.

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So I went through and I figured
out, OK, I did my own

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calculations and then I went
back to the products and I

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compared.
I said, OK, why do they have

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this number when I had this
trade?

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Why do they have this number
when I had this cell?

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Why do they have this?
Why is mine different?

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So I went to compared and that's
how I figured out what each of

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the products were doing wrong,
what data they had, how they may

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be classified it inaccurately,
etcetera.

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And so, and listen, I sat down
myself and thought and I, I, I

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was very sure that I was right,
but I said that too.

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And I said, these are million,
billion dollar products.

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How am I getting this right?
And they're not, I'm missing

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something.
I have to be missing something,

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you know, how am I getting this
right?

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And so I kept going and, and
eventually I was 100% sure that

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I was doing it right and I knew
why they were doing it wrong.

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So in the beginning of 23, we
actually sent through attorneys,

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through our attorneys and, and
ourselves.

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We sent them emails because if I
text didn't exist, we sent them

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all emails and we said, Hey, we
went through your, your product.

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You know, I just do taxes, but I
went through your product

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because I was trying to get it
to one of my, my clients to

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figure out which one was best.
And you're making mistakes that

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are detrimental to your users.
You know, with the, with the

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audits in swing already, we, I
want to give you literally the

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data at all my research for free
regarding your own product so

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you can fix it.
I didn't plan on doing anything.

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I didn't plan to make money off
of it.

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I just saw what the damages will
be if it isn't done right.

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So a lot of them read it because
we had read receipts.

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Some compliance officers read it
and then decided to block me or

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they said no thanks, not our
problem.

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One company met, met with us and
I met with the CEO and their tax

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attorney and I asked questions
and they couldn't answer any of

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them.
It's like they didn't even know

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how to calculate it.
And then they tried to sell me

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their product and I said, well,
no thanks, I don't want your

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product.
That's the whole point.

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I want you to fix it.
And around April of 2023, we met

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00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:04,800
with the SEC, Finn Up Division
and a bunch of other division

224
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,160
chiefs and enforcement
attorneys, et cetera, to go over

225
00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,680
our research.
And they said, oh, shit.

226
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,840
I said, well, yeah.
And they sent us straight to the

227
00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:16,480
IRS and congressional
committees.

228
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:21,040
So we met with the IRS and the
director for the cryptocurrency

229
00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,280
and, and a few of the attorneys
and we went over our research

230
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,920
again.
And then I asked how do you do

231
00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,120
the audits?
And they said, well, considering

232
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:31,720
your research, we're doing it
wrong.

233
00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:34,320
And I said, well, how do you do
it?

234
00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:36,840
And so they explained how they
were doing their audits, how

235
00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:38,440
they were collecting data,
etcetera.

236
00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,200
And I was like, yeah, that's
absolutely not accurate.

237
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,160
And they're like, yeah, so they
actually stopped.

238
00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,320
I got to get some.
This is really mind boggling to

239
00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,120
me.
I mean, if hopefully people are

240
00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,200
actually listening and not
yelling at the driver that just

241
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,120
went by them, you know, and
whatever, cut them off.

242
00:13:55,120 --> 00:14:01,280
Because so all of these
organizations that have spent

243
00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:07,080
lots and lots of money
supposedly incorporating new IRS

244
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:12,000
codes, all that kind of stuff,
understanding this and the IRS

245
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:19,280
themselves and your research and
your data was infallible.

246
00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:24,440
They could look at it and go,
yeah, like so that that is like

247
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,000
the first, like how, how if they
can't verify, how could they

248
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,680
verify that what you were saying
was was accurate?

249
00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,280
Because I gave them my I, I, I
gave them my research.

250
00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,600
Because it was like manual you
could like you could trace on.

251
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,000
Every Yeah you can.
Say you can see what's yeah, you

252
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,600
can see what was happening in
the other products worth it were

253
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:47,800
you know what, what was what was
going wrong in those products

254
00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,080
yeah.
And then?

255
00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,480
And was an element of that
because the way it gets pulled

256
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,720
off of the platforms is
incomplete.

257
00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:02,040
No.
SO a lot of those time, a lot of

258
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,960
things are how the data was
obtained and how the data was

259
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,120
categorized.
Because if the data is not

260
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:14,440
obtained, the in a specific way
data comes over incomplete.

261
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:20,360
So it was incomplete data.
And then do they end up putting

262
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:25,600
like dummy data into one of the
fields and that's kind of what

263
00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:27,360
messes it up or there or
because?

264
00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,280
Yeah.
So it's not going to do with

265
00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,000
that.
There's some air, some of the

266
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:36,640
products will actually like add
dummy data in order to balance,

267
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,520
but some of the products will
let you actually, they say, hey,

268
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,360
this doesn't seem right here.
Add a basis to it.

269
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,640
They'll let you manipulate the
data yourself, even though what

270
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:49,480
happens on the blockchain stays
on the blockchain, right?

271
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,760
Instead of realizing that
there's an error that the

272
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,840
algorithm triggers said, hey,
something is missing, you know,

273
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,240
so, so they, they let you do it
like, and we'll get to the

274
00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,120
features that will exclude any
of the products from an audit,

275
00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:05,560
even if they were 100% accurate.
But the IRS basically the way

276
00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,600
they were collecting data and
handling data was, was from the

277
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:17,040
get go flawed.
So, so they weren't able to do

278
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,600
their calculations on their end
even accurately.

279
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:25,760
So and, and they, they, you
know, they admitted that and

280
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,680
they stopped the audits.
And so during that time we also

281
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,560
met with congressional
committees and them our

282
00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:35,600
research, we met with
universities who are actually

283
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,400
working with the IRS and we
handed them in 23 hour data.

284
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,280
Took them about two years to go
through all my data and verify

285
00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:48,400
everything.
And, and they just published not

286
00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:52,080
just, but in April and in July
things were published on fax

287
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:56,960
notes about my research,
validating it, validating it

288
00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:01,240
all.
But I was right, and I know.

289
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:06,560
I mean and then.
And then in 2024, the

290
00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:08,760
universities actually called me,
said, hey, the IRS tried to

291
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:10,800
start audits again.
We used your research to show

292
00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:12,960
them that they can't because
they're still doing it wrong.

293
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,760
So that's nice.
And they still haven't started

294
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:18,760
the audits.
But one thing people have to

295
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:24,359
understand is in 21, the IRS
received permission from the

296
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,599
Justice Department to send out
what's called 1000 John Doe

297
00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:29,360
summonses.
You can Google it.

298
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,200
OK.
Right.

299
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:38,280
So what that means is any, any
US taxpayer, whether they're

300
00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,960
citizen national green card
holder, whatever 10 holder,

301
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:48,920
whatever it is, any US taxpayer
who touched crypto via at KYC

302
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,400
platform, whether it is Coinbase
crack and Robin Hood finance,

303
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:57,360
etcetera, etcetera, or on a
decentralized platform when they

304
00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:00,920
use something like moon pay,
something that needed a

305
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:06,040
verification, right?
They now have your, your

306
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,920
information, they know you
touched it and they just a

307
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,920
couple months ago received a
third round back updating what

308
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,360
they already knew.
So anybody who touched it now

309
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:20,320
has started new, right.
So you are now on the they have

310
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,360
a list.
So it's not so much, you know

311
00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:25,400
said earlier, it's not so much
that any CPA or individual or

312
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,440
business does anything to
trigger an audit.

313
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:28,920
No, they already know who you
are.

314
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,880
They already know you have it.
They're already well aware of

315
00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:35,600
it.
So that and that's what they

316
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,040
based their initial audits on.
Then they stop the audits, but

317
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,240
they're going to come back
because, listen, between 09 and

318
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:46,680
2023, they had already missed
out on about $146 billion.

319
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:50,840
In capital gains.
Taxes and income from crypto

320
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,560
that they didn't, you know,
weren't able to tax because

321
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:57,160
people didn't know how to
report, didn't want to report,

322
00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,560
whatever it is.
That's why that little box on

323
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,320
your return in 2021 popped up
asking, you know, did you buy or

324
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:08,160
sell crypto this year?
You know well that is also a

325
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,240
protection because if you check
no and they know you had it,

326
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,600
they can try and get you for tax
evasion because you officially

327
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:20,120
lied on your tax return.
Wow, now they're that may come

328
00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:22,800
back to buy to few people.
Yeah, so.

329
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:26,800
So no, I don't know how you know
how hard they'll like go after

330
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:27,560
it.
We'll see it.

331
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,240
But you know, and I mean.
Yeah, it'll be interesting to

332
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:36,000
see because we have, you know,
now they're trying to, you know,

333
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:43,920
do some things to make crypto a
lot more like independent of of

334
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:48,000
our Financial Policy and stuff.
It doesn't matter though,

335
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,640
because tax code, even if they
change tax code, even if

336
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,080
President Trump would come
tomorrow and say crypto is no

337
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,760
longer taxable, it wouldn't
change the fact that up until

338
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,840
24, the tax year, 24 crypto was
taxable.

339
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,200
Right, because you don't change
tax codes backwards.

340
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,280
Could you imagine the disaster
if you could change the

341
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,320
backwards?
I mean, you know, oh, look, you

342
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:11,600
benefit from this.
Nope, we're making it backwards,

343
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,800
not, you know, so it doesn't
work, that one.

344
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:15,760
So even if that would happen
right now.

345
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:21,600
Now I do have to say I was very
happy when in April President

346
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:27,320
Trump signed something up
against the 1099 DA's and I

347
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:28,960
don't know if he knew why he
said no.

348
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,600
Maybe he said no because he
didn't want no oversight or

349
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,360
whatever it is.
But the reason why I'm happy is

350
00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:38,080
this.
So imagine you have a Coinbase

351
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,040
account.
Imagine you bought $2000 worth

352
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,080
of Bitcoin.
Imagine you know you bought it

353
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,800
beginning of 24 and end of 24.
Oh my God, crypto exploded and

354
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,040
now it's $10,000 worth short
term, right?

355
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,640
Remember that?
So you say, great, I have

356
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,520
$10,000 now I would like to send
this though to Robin Hood

357
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,800
because on Robin Hood I can, I
can do like a bunch more things

358
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,320
with crypto that are not that
you can't do on Coinbase.

359
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,760
So you say, yay, I'm going to
send this to my Robin Hood

360
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,720
account.
So technically stating if you

361
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,480
send money between one of your
checking account to another one

362
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,280
of your checking account, it's
not income, right?

363
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,960
Nothing taxable.
However, do you think Coinbase

364
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:16,680
and Robin Hood communicate with
one another?

365
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:21,520
No, they're competitors.
So let's say from Coinbase, you

366
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,400
sent now $10,000 worth of your
Bitcoin to Robin Hood.

367
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,480
Coinbase says, oh, look, $8000
of gain because the send

368
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,360
transaction essentially is a
taxable event.

369
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,040
Coinbase doesn't know that.
You send it to Robin Hood, which

370
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:37,680
is your own account.
They don't know.

371
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,640
They know it left.
OK, so Coinbase is going to say,

372
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,520
oh, look, $8000 of gain.
We're going to report that on

373
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,640
the 1099 DA to the government.
Great, Robin Hood is going to

374
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,600
say, because based on IRS codes
of receiving crypto is income.

375
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,880
So Coinbase is going to say, oh
look, $10,000 worth of income.

376
00:21:54,880 --> 00:22:00,000
I'm going to send a 1099-DA to
the government now, the

377
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:01,480
government says.
Hey, you got to.

378
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:07,520
Report $8000 of short term gain
taxed at 28 to 37% and $10,000

379
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,320
worth of income on a non taxable
event.

380
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,640
But if you call the IRS and you
say, hey, no listen, this isn't

381
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,640
right.
This was a self transfer.

382
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,400
They said, well, you got to talk
to Coinbase and you got to talk

383
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,000
to Robin Hood.
Have you ever tried contacting

384
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:25,680
Coinbase?
So that is why I'm happy that

385
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:30,600
President Trump in April was
able to stop the 1099 DA's

386
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:35,360
because could you imagine a the
billions of 1099 DA's that would

387
00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:39,960
have that would go out every
single year and how most of them

388
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,400
would be incorrect?
And how do you fight that?

389
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,160
You can't, how are you going to
fight that?

390
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:46,760
You know what I mean?
You can't get a hold of

391
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:48,600
Coinbase.
Now try to get a hold of

392
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:54,120
Coinbase when you when there's
millions of incorrect 109098.

393
00:22:55,280 --> 00:23:00,520
So you know, that's one of one
of my like that I was happy that

394
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,920
that wasn't happening.
Now, now the IRS comes back and

395
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:08,440
tells all the exchanges to track
the basis of crypto, which let

396
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,600
me tell you, this is one of the
issues I'm having with that.

397
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,280
So there's exchanges out there
who will calculate your taxes

398
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,280
for you, right?
So for the exchange

399
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,200
specifically, not for all your
other other platforms to use,

400
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:22,880
but for the exchange
specifically.

401
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,240
And I tested them.
I created a little test.

402
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,360
I've created test wallets and
exchanges everywhere.

403
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:34,640
And so I tested on one and it's
one of the most used exchanges,

404
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:39,200
I think.
And they also endorse 2 of the

405
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,680
top multi billion dollar crypto
tax products on the market.

406
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,440
They not just endorse them, they
own parts of them, they're

407
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,040
shareholders in them.
OK.

408
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,040
So they endorse them and their
shareholders.

409
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,320
So you know, kickbacks, revenue,
whatever.

410
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:58,240
But my assumption would be, and
that would be, you know, an

411
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:02,520
assumption that anybody should
have is if you're an exchange

412
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,280
and you endorse 2 of the crypto
tax products, whatever the tax

413
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,200
numbers are that you're giving
me should match the products

414
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:10,920
that you have.
You have.

415
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,160
Partial ownership in and you're
endorsing me too, right?

416
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:20,920
I mean, it would be easy. 24
this is this is my real numbers

417
00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:24,200
in 24 I looked at and you can
test this all I mean literally,

418
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:25,880
you can verify it by using it
yourself.

419
00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:31,080
Go log in and do this.
I looked and I said OK, the one

420
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,880
exchange told me you have $99.00
of gains on our data.

421
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,520
Again, remember small
transactions.

422
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,520
I said OK, great.
So then I connected it to the

423
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,400
one product that they're
endorsing that they're that they

424
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:47,800
own and that product told me on
my little 6070 transactions, OK,

425
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:56,880
said you have gain of $2990.00.
OK, that's a little bit

426
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,720
different, right, Considering
it's, it's literally 70

427
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,480
transactions of buy, sell, buy,
sell, trade, trade, buy, sell,

428
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,960
right.
Then I go to the third to the

429
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,920
second product that they're
endorsing and own I have part of

430
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:13,960
ownership in and get the same
data out through API or two and

431
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,200
it tells me you have a loss of
$351.

432
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,680
Where's the new?
Building identified way back

433
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:21,680
when.
Yeah.

434
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,760
You're still, you're seeing in
like current terms even though

435
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:26,800
they.
Yeah.

436
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:28,840
So yeah.
Were those two of the companies

437
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:30,520
that you had gone to to show
them your data?

438
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,280
Yeah, yeah.
OK.

439
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,880
Yeah.
So, well, let me let me

440
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,800
backtrack.
So let me tell you why I decided

441
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,880
to develop my own product.
And and you know, my business

442
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,800
partner says because I say I'm
stubborn, right?

443
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,960
I'm petulant.
I get like really like fine, if

444
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:51,320
you don't do it, I'll do it
right.

445
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,480
But in 23 at the beginning of
20-3, about six months after we

446
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:03,680
tried to give them our data and
had met with the IRS and the SEC

447
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,400
and everything.
So in quarter 3 of 20, like the

448
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,840
end of quarter three, beginning
of quarter 4.

449
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,720
So buddy, listen about four
about about two years ago,

450
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,680
right, about two years ago now,
I went ahead and I pulled the

451
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:20,440
virus, the reports again to see
if if you know to track their

452
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,600
data.
All but one of the products who

453
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,880
we who we send it to.
I'd read, read receipts, try to

454
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,920
fix their own mess.
I've just given it to them for

455
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:35,280
free, but they tried to do it
themselves without telling their

456
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,560
users.
So this is where the issue comes

457
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,160
in.
They try to fix their own

458
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,240
algorithms.
They didn't fix crap, right?

459
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:45,720
They didn't.
They made it.

460
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:47,160
I mean, they didn't make it
better or worse.

461
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:54,200
It's still wrong, period.
But now imagine this, anybody

462
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,960
who used these products for 22
or 21 and 2020 and 2019,

463
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,680
whatever.
Now if you sign on now that

464
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,600
report that you used back in 22
and in 21 and in 20, that report

465
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,280
doesn't match what you actually
used on your tax return anymore.

466
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,400
And, and we scoured because
we've been signed up for

467
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,640
newsletters for all of them.
We've scoured it, we've looked

468
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,400
they didn't send anything out
and how easy would have been to

469
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,360
say, hey, the IRS made some
changes to the tax code.

470
00:27:22,360 --> 00:27:24,080
We had to make some changes to
our algorithms.

471
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,520
Please review what you know what
you have so you can Nope.

472
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,320
So that's when that.
Seems almost like there's a

473
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,560
liability there for you know.
You want to hear liability,

474
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,000
Let's I'll, I'll give you, I'll
give you more details on that.

475
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,280
So, so that's when I said, you
know what, screw this.

476
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,720
I'm just going to do it myself
because obviously everybody just

477
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,720
cares about a dollar.
You know, they want to make

478
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:45,800
money.
They don't care about the

479
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:47,360
damages.
And we'll go over what the

480
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:49,400
damages are.
And people need to wake up and

481
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,960
realize this, you know, they,
they, you know, every time a

482
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,040
disaster happens, people always
act like, Oh my God, I didn't

483
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,040
see this coming.
Well, then yeah, you did just

484
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:00,880
pay attention.
You know what I mean?

485
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,120
Like your kid like goes upside
down, down, you know, from the

486
00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:06,680
slide and snacks, the head open.
It's like, Oh no, how'd that

487
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,440
happen?
Kid went upside down, down the

488
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,760
slide.
That's, you know, but but it's

489
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,320
easier to, you know, and even
even even large media outlets

490
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,280
that have been working with us,
you know, told us very

491
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,200
straightforward, this is going
to be bad.

492
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,640
This is going to be ridiculously
bad for the public.

493
00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:26,480
But hey, we're going to wait
until people are actually going

494
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,960
to be damaged before we publish
something.

495
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:35,120
Major news outlets, major ones,
national ones are interested.

496
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,800
That's their response.
We'll wait until people

497
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,400
actually, you know, in pain from
the financial damage that

498
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:42,800
they're going to incur by from
this.

499
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,400
That's another story, so.
This.

500
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,600
Year when I came across that
issue where you know the major

501
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,080
exchange and the two products
that that are connected to them,

502
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,960
I said, you know what?
My attorney sent out a very

503
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,120
detailed outline of the
negligence and lack of due

504
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:04,920
diligence that they have done
and the issues not threatening

505
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:10,000
like we wanted an open dialogue.
Less than 36 hours, this

506
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:15,520
multibillion dollar massive
exchange, the first time in

507
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:20,160
eight years, less than 36 hours
after they received our letter,

508
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,160
change their terms of services
for the first time in eight

509
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,400
years to exclude class actual
lawsuits, make arbitration

510
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,200
mandatory and take away all
their liability for their tax

511
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,120
calculations and any third party
tax.

512
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,840
Calculate calculators that
they're that they're endorsing.

513
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,200
That they're endorsing even I
yeah, I don't even know if

514
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,960
that'll hold up right, but
that's weird.

515
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,440
But.
If you didn't, if you didn't

516
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,040
sign, well, if you didn't sign
they, they would close your

517
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,880
countdown.
Yeah, but that doesn't limit

518
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,000
their liability.
They close your account down on

519
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:55,360
something like that.
It's like when you look at all

520
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,920
the stuff that's happening with
credit cards right there,

521
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,960
there's there seems like there's
a never ending cycle of class

522
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:06,840
action suits against predatory
policies or incomplete or, you

523
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,680
know.
You know, I mean, it's not going

524
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,280
to hold up, You know, it's,
it's, it's, it's absolutely.

525
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,360
But but you see what I'm saying?
It's, it's look, I'm, I'm who am

526
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,160
I?
You know, I'm not a billionaire.

527
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:23,520
I'm not a millionaire, right?
Like, but I'm trying to fix

528
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,080
something and I wasn't being
mean about it.

529
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:31,120
But I've seen so many people
like, OK, let's imagine this.

530
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,840
Let's imagine we have the middle
class we have, we have, you

531
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:39,720
know, I don't know John Doe over
there in 19 he, he, you know, 18

532
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,880
he bought some crypto, you know,
and 19 it like went crazy.

533
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,720
And let's say he made $50,000,
OK, and he sold it and he sold

534
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,640
it, you know, he held it for
less than a year because crypto

535
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,840
really went crazy in that year.
And he made $50,000 and he goes,

536
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,240
yes, so he has $50,000.
Took his family on a vacation,

537
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,080
bought a new car, paid off some
credit cards, right?

538
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:03,880
But he didn't record it because
he didn't know how to.

539
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,720
Now, let's say the IRS comes now
and says, hey, you're on the

540
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,240
list.
We're going to audit you now.

541
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,760
And hey, you didn't pay.
Let's say he had, you know,

542
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,480
let's, let's be nice and let's
say, OK, he had, he had, he had

543
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:21,200
28%, right?
He had 28% on, on his $50,000

544
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,000
because he didn't have a high
tax rate, right?

545
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,120
So he had, he had 28%, he had,
he would have voted like

546
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,000
$14,000.
But John Doe, you know, he has

547
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,600
two kids, he has a dog, he has a
cat that always gets sick

548
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,480
because, you know, hairballs
and, and he is married, you

549
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:40,000
know, stay at home mom.
And, and now he, he relies on

550
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,480
his, his refunds every year
because that's how he, you know,

551
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,840
pays for his kids to go to
karate or gets his car replaced,

552
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:49,920
you know, his tires replaced,
whatever it is.

553
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,000
Or maybe they take a vacation.
Like we all know it, right?

554
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,160
We all know the struggle.
So now, now he gets a bill.

555
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,120
Now they say, OK, listen, it's
been 6 years, let's say the

556
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:03,320
audit in this year, right, It's
been 6 years since since you

557
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,760
since you made that 14, you
know, since you owed US $14,000

558
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,240
and that's.
The lower right right they

559
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,480
compounded.
And they compounded at between 6

560
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,600
to 8% interest.
Well, we'll wait then we have

561
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,400
the underpayment penalty, we
have the accuracy related

562
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,480
penalty, the late payment
penalty, we have all these

563
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,760
penalties.
And then that $14,000 is going

564
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:27,240
to easily turn into what, 2835
thousand dollars?

565
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,560
Well, now he says, oh crap, what
am I going to do?

566
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,360
Well, we can put you on a
payment plan because it's under

567
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,760
$50,000 that you owe us.
We can put you on an easy

568
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,760
payment plan, pay us $500 a
month, 200 three, $100 a month,

569
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,840
right?
What John doesn't realize is the

570
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,280
interest is still going to
compound on all of it, including

571
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,600
penalties.
So you're making these payments?

572
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:53,360
We think the the financial aid
crisis for college is bad

573
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,240
because they were compounding
interest for 15 years as people

574
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,600
were paying for it and they end
up owing five times what their

575
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,800
initial principle was.
But that's.

576
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:03,480
Where you're going, that's
what's going.

577
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:04,520
To happen.
Well, well.

578
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,400
The thing is this Oh my God.
They're going to, they're going

579
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:07,960
to file their taxes.
They're going to file their

580
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:09,360
taxes.
And Hughes thinks, oh, I'm not a

581
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,320
$5000 tax return.
No, you don't.

582
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,240
It's not going to be added.
You're not going to see it for

583
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,000
the next 5-6, seven years
because it's going to be used to

584
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,680
lower, to lower what you owe
them, what you owe them after

585
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,160
the compounding.
I mean, now John could go and

586
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:29,200
get a loan because let me let's
be clear, how many companies

587
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,680
will come out of the woodworks
and offer quick loans to pay off

588
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,560
your IRS debt with like, you
know, 34% interest rate?

589
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,880
It's not going to be any better,
right?

590
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:39,080
Yeah.
Oh my God.

591
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:43,120
And I'm just thinking about that
because you know, as I, I, you

592
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,520
know, struggle to create
awareness about the ability to

593
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,520
invest in entrepreneurs in
crowdfunding or Angel investing,

594
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,160
right?
Talk about that.

595
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:57,400
And you know, we're talking part
of what I do is compared to

596
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,600
crypto investing, right?
Because crypto is more known,

597
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,960
there's more word of mouth on
crypto than there is on

598
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,120
crowdfund investing.
And you know, I have this, the

599
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,360
three ways they're different,
the three ways they're alike.

600
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,880
And it's one of the ways that
they're alike is that anybody

601
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:20,159
over the age of 18 can do it And
there is no limit on like no

602
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:25,120
income issue now with Reg CF
just like there never has been

603
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:29,080
with crypto.
And and so you and part of the

604
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:34,400
reason why the SEC and all of
their wisdom has established

605
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,120
this accredited status and.
People.

606
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,400
From being able to invest like
millionaires have for you know,

607
00:34:42,639 --> 00:34:43,040
I.
Mean it's a.

608
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:44,320
Protection.
You know I.

609
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:45,280
Can see.
I see.

610
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:46,800
Why?
Because it is, yeah.

611
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:48,800
They don't think they're
sophisticated enough.

612
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,400
That's a big old battle that's
going on right now.

613
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:52,760
I don't.
Think it's so much the

614
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,360
sophistication because I see it
I work with a lot of people like

615
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,840
right it is it is yes, one side
of sophisticated, but the other

616
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,000
side is too.
Can you imagine if you're

617
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,600
experience, if inexperience is
some of these people, they're

618
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,080
amazing talkers.
They will come and sell you a

619
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:12,920
freaking self drying towel right
That mean like they don't die

620
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,840
themselves and people will come
and be so excited about it.

621
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:20,320
I've seen it, you know, and so,
you know, I've seen people go

622
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,520
bankrupt because they invested
in the wrong things.

623
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,480
And I always say if it quacks
like a duck and it looks like a

624
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,960
duck and walks like a duck, it's
probably a freaking duck, you

625
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:31,400
know, So doesn't exactly right,
Right.

626
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,920
Exactly.
Not to invest it, yeah, yeah,

627
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,320
that's a whole nother
conversation.

628
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:43,480
But but yeah, my point is, is
that they, the SEC and FINRA and

629
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:44,760
the US Treasury.
Oh yeah.

630
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:45,720
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.

631
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,720
That, oh, crypto doesn't really
matter.

632
00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:53,280
We'll let everybody do it, but
we want to inhibit.

633
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,480
We don't want to give any, we
don't want to give any guidance

634
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,560
either.
You know, if we come up and and

635
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,440
and try to fight you for it, but
you know, we're just gonna yeah,

636
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,280
no, I get it.
I get it.

637
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,280
But that's.
Created a a bigger hornet's nest

638
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:06,000
now.
Oh yeah.

639
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:10,520
Because of it being an actual
currency that's a, you know, a

640
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:15,680
taxable, these taxable events
and you know, they, But people

641
00:36:15,720 --> 00:36:19,240
are unsophisticated with
understanding that they're not

642
00:36:19,240 --> 00:36:23,000
out there trading dollars for
EUR or doing anything like that

643
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,320
and playing the monetary policy
which, you know, it requires

644
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,080
that they, everybody knows
there's a level of

645
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,360
sophistication in that and it's
a bigger barrier to entry to get

646
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,000
into it than it is in
crowdfunding.

647
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,720
So you've got a whole lot of
people that jumped on a

648
00:36:35,720 --> 00:36:39,680
bandwagon that now have this
potential huge amount of

649
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:44,280
financial risk on them that they
they had no.

650
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:47,560
Well, it's a waterfall effect
too.

651
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,640
Like if you look at it right, if
you look like, you know,

652
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,640
remember John, John is going to
sit there and he's not going to

653
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,760
know how to deal with the IRS.
He probably used TurboTax.

654
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,920
He probably is not, doesn't have
anybody to really help him,

655
00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:02,560
right?
And that's where we're going to

656
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:06,680
mirror the ERC credits, all
these companies that came out of

657
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,080
the woodworks and said we're
going to help you file your 941

658
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:11,440
amendment, we're going to help
you get.

659
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:13,400
These.
Hundreds of thousands of dollars

660
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,520
back.
You just have to give us 25% of

661
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,640
it.
They filed all of them.

662
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:19,560
You know how many?
And they got all paid out

663
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,040
because it was the crisis,
right?

664
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:22,800
Everybody needed money.
The money was.

665
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,560
Supposed to get paid out without
really reviewing these. 940 ones

666
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,880
and now millions of people have
to pay them back.

667
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:35,760
But these companies that took
the 25%, they're long gone, long

668
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:40,720
gone and they fought filled them
out inaccurately and they have

669
00:37:40,720 --> 00:37:42,760
to pay it back 100%.
Doesn't matter if those

670
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,520
companies took them 25% or not.
And so this is the same thing

671
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:51,120
because listen to this, after we
audited those 14 software

672
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:55,120
products, we went ahead and
audited 53 of the of the

673
00:37:55,120 --> 00:38:01,240
so-called crypto expert, like
tax experts, legal experts.

674
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,280
We audited all these law firms,
these accounting firms, CPA

675
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,320
firms and we audited them by
becoming their clients.

676
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,240
We said, here you go.
We have, you know, at this point

677
00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:12,720
maybe like 6-7 hundred
transactions, I need to know

678
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,120
what it is.
They charged us 3 grand, three

679
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,840
or more grand for that many
transactions.

680
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:24,520
The fun part is this 8 They
asked us for it in CSV file form

681
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,320
which immediately I was like
doesn't work.

682
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,120
Or they ask us to connect to one
of those products which

683
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,120
immediately tells me it's not
going to work.

684
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,320
Or they took it and then ran it
through the one of those

685
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,240
products and gave it back to us
in a nice pretty looking excel

686
00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:44,880
sheet and charged me 3 grand but
nothing accurate.

687
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:49,320
Nothing.
So now we're back into the same,

688
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,160
in the same position.
Now John needs to find somebody.

689
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,320
Somebody is going to come and
say, hey, I'm going to charge

690
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:59,440
you 345 and then the more money
you have, right, 6789 ten, $1000

691
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:01,640
and I'm going to defend you in
front of the IRS.

692
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:05,000
OK, Let me tell you how that's
going to go.

693
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,400
The IRS is going to come and say
we looked over everything.

694
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,560
You owe us $14,000 plus
interest, penalties, etcetera.

695
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,840
Whoever is representing you is
going to be like well, OK, no,

696
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:17,880
he doesn't.
Well prove it.

697
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,840
Well, here's one of the products
where we ran the reports through

698
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,720
and it's only says he owes 8000
or $5000.

699
00:39:23,720 --> 00:39:27,360
They say that product is not
audit, is not allowed in an

700
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,640
audit, just like QuickBooks is
not allowed in an audit because

701
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,040
it can be manipulated.
And now we get to the features

702
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:36,760
that I spoke to earlier.
Even if these products were 100%

703
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:41,560
accurate, you would not be able
to use them in an audit because

704
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,880
we talked about this a little
bit before we came on using

705
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:49,760
blockchain for voter, voter, you
know, like can I think of the

706
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,960
word verification?
Because what happens on the

707
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:59,120
blockchain says on the
blockchain can't be changed.

708
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,760
So what do these products do?
Because they did not actually

709
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,440
verify what data comes over via
the API, they didn't classify it

710
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:08,920
correctly.
They, they don't know what

711
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:10,640
they're doing with this raw
data.

712
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:16,040
They're letting you handle the
raw data, they're letting you at

713
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,840
the basis, but they're giving
you the option to do edit a

714
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,080
transaction.
And I'm not just saying editing

715
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,800
it like, you know, like saying
it was actually a self transfer

716
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:27,760
instead of a receipt for income
purposes.

717
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,880
No, no.
Edit the date, the time, the

718
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,720
currency.
Imagine it, you have a, you have

719
00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:37,600
a Bitcoin trade that generated
$50,000 of capital gains.

720
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,520
You can go on there in those
products and edit it and say it

721
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,560
wasn't Bitcoin.
I'm going to make this Ethereum.

722
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:49,520
And the spot price wasn't 100
grand, it was $30,000.

723
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,480
They can only do that.
No, I mean, no, that's fraud,

724
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,280
right?
But like technically, like if I

725
00:40:55,280 --> 00:41:00,360
sell, it used to be that in
order to get around paying for

726
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:04,160
your sales tax, your car tax on
a car, when you bought a

727
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:08,400
secondhand car, you would do the
pink sheet transfer at a dollar,

728
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:09,680
right?
Right.

729
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,560
Yeah, yeah.
Now you can't do that anymore

730
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,840
because the states want to
collect their taxes on it.

731
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,120
You know, it's not so much
fraud, it's just they're going

732
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:19,640
to this, it's like QuickBooks,
right?

733
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,840
So if you use QuickBooks for
your bookkeeping needs, you do

734
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,880
adjust the general entries,
entries that don't didn't show

735
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:30,320
up on your tax return because
you have depreciation, right?

736
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,480
And depreciation obviously
doesn't show up on your bank

737
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,480
statements, right?
Or maybe you paid somebody out

738
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,800
of cash, You know, you make
adjusted Germany.

739
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,560
But again, it can be
manipulated, which is why you

740
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,240
cannot use it in an audit.
They want your bank statements.

741
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:50,120
So what the IRS will want is the
actual, you know, blockchain

742
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:54,480
data and not a product that
allows you to change.

743
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,320
Imagine going to your bank and
saying, you know, I wrote this

744
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:03,840
$10,000 check, but I think let's
remove a couple of zeros and

745
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:05,760
instead of dollars, let's make
it yen.

746
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,720
How would that work for you?
But that's what these products

747
00:42:09,720 --> 00:42:12,160
allow you to do.
And that's just insane to me,

748
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,560
right?
Because, and they have, but the

749
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:19,200
problem is they have to let you
do it because they do not get

750
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,280
the data over accurately and the
algorithms in the back are not

751
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,520
set because they didn't do
double checking.

752
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:30,400
They didn't create data on any
of and all of the exchanges and

753
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:33,240
block chains that they're
utilizing to see how it comes

754
00:42:33,240 --> 00:42:34,000
over.
We did.

755
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:36,880
That's why it's been a pain in
the ass and that's why I hate it

756
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,720
every day that I decided to do
this because I'm a perfectionist

757
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:41,920
and I don't like doing something
half ass.

758
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,600
And so I have to consistently
create more wallets and more

759
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,480
exchanges and run data through
in order for my developers to

760
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,400
pull the raw data to see what
comes over, which is how we

761
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:55,360
discovered that none of the
products ever catch validator

762
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,200
accounts, pretend that they
don't exist.

763
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,840
They can't do it.
You know, none of these products

764
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,000
can follow the basis of an NFT
unless you bought it.

765
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:07,560
There's so many things that they
don't know how to do because

766
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:09,080
they didn't put the effort in
it.

767
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,560
And, and my biggest problem is
these products are literally

768
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:21,160
worth 2 to $3 billion billions.
They have taken money out of

769
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,880
people's pockets who thought
they're going to do the right

770
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,440
thing by reporting.
And they've either under

771
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,000
reported or severely over
reported.

772
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,560
Either way, they either overpaid
or they underpaid.

773
00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:36,080
The problem with this is get
this, let's say you overpaid.

774
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:40,600
Let's say you overpaid.
The IRS will not waive the

775
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,720
three-year statute of
limitation, which means let's

776
00:43:43,720 --> 00:43:47,160
say they audit you for 2019 and
they say, oh, look, you

777
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:54,080
actually.
I just lost your sound.

778
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,560
Sorry for that little technical
glitch, everybody Jan is going

779
00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:00,400
to wrap up talking about this
issue with tracking that

780
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:04,640
transactional part of this and
then we're going to get into the

781
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,560
solution because we talked a lot
about problems.

782
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,520
So here's the the solution, but
it's important understanding,

783
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,640
you know, crypto, you know, as
you're buying and selling,

784
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,840
there's this little piece of the
transaction and sometimes a

785
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:21,120
portion of your of that benefit,
if you will.

786
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,200
I mean, you took out bit mine
immersions, right, They air they

787
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:28,880
take a tiny bit as their payment
along the way and that gets lost

788
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:32,360
in the shuffle in regular
reporting on of accounting.

789
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,040
That needs to be a big piece of
that.

790
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:35,480
That was a part she was talking
about.

791
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,280
So pick up on that you just.
Have to be able to, you know,

792
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,360
everything has to be caught
because there's a big picture,

793
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,440
right?
And if you only look at half of

794
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,320
the picture, it could be more
beneficial or less beneficial.

795
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,600
And what I was saying is, you
know, like these products are,

796
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:54,240
so they vary so much that on one
hand you can be over reporting,

797
00:44:54,240 --> 00:44:56,040
on the other hand you can be
under reporting.

798
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,280
Now let me give you the issue.
If you're over it for the audit

799
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,720
purposes of under reporting,
there's no statute of

800
00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:03,200
limitation.
They can audit you for the next

801
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,040
1015 years if they want it.
Now let's go to the issue of

802
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,240
you.
Let's say you use the product

803
00:45:08,240 --> 00:45:11,920
for example, that said you had
$29190.00 of gains when you

804
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,360
didn't and you reported that and
you overpaid now and they audit

805
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,360
you and they say, oh actually
you overpaid.

806
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:19,600
But guess what?
You're past the three-year

807
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:21,400
statute of limitation.
You're not getting a refund.

808
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:25,040
The IRS will still get their
money if you're underpaid, but

809
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:26,920
you're getting your money back
if you overpaid.

810
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:31,400
So, you know, talk about
fairness.

811
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,680
But yeah.
And so, so I was getting so

812
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:38,400
frustrated with a, what the
consequences are going to be for

813
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:44,240
individuals, businesses, you
know, for for, you know, look at

814
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:47,080
all the accounting firms.
None of the Cpas will be able to

815
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,720
truly defend their client
because they're not going to be

816
00:45:50,720 --> 00:45:52,240
able to use anything that's out
there.

817
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:56,320
Now that's, you know, again,
like I said, stubborn, you know,

818
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,120
a little bit of control freak
sometimes I was like, I'm going

819
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:00,440
to build my own, I'm going to do
it right.

820
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,840
And so we've built this and, and
again, we're the only program

821
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,400
that's probably peer reviewed by
the by universities has been

822
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,560
published in tax notes as met
with the IRS, stop the IRS

823
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,960
audits.
And we have put it together in a

824
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:20,120
way that a individuals will will
be able to utilize it for their,

825
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:25,080
you know, trading needs and
businesses will be able to use

826
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,160
it because in business land,
it's the same way you receive

827
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,280
crypto.
You have it, it's you, it's

828
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,560
income.
If you hold it and you don't

829
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,720
sell it and then, or if you hold
it and then sell it, you've got

830
00:46:35,720 --> 00:46:37,960
to have capital gains on the
business side as well.

831
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:41,320
It's the same treatment.
However, the benefit you have is

832
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:42,840
now you get to write up
expenses.

833
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,400
So if you pay people in crypto,
if you pay individuals in

834
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,000
crypto, whether it's
influencers?

835
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:48,960
Or.
Contractors, whatever that's an

836
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:50,480
expense.
So now you get to actually

837
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,080
expensive, right.
So you, we've built out a crypto

838
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,600
bookkeeping system for you and
we have an accountant financial

839
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:58,720
advisor platform, meaning
financial advisors.

840
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,120
They can oversee your portfolio
accountants, they can actually

841
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:06,480
see and, and review your tax
reports or they can help you

842
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,560
with the bookkeeping portion of
it, whatever it is.

843
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,680
But they have access to it and
you build it out in a way we

844
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,840
have, we are lacking the
features that will disqualify

845
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:19,160
the product for an audit.
So plus also I think I think

846
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:22,040
they know me by now, they might
be a little bit annoyed with me,

847
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:26,840
which is fine.
But you know, I have no problem

848
00:47:27,240 --> 00:47:31,120
because we have also added on
audit defense for a fraction of

849
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:32,440
the cost that you will find out
there.

850
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:36,120
We will work with your CPA if
you have a full blown audit

851
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,760
because people only handle your
crypto audit, right.

852
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,680
If you have a full blown audit
and they question your crypto,

853
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,400
you call us in or if you're just
simply being audited for crypto,

854
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,040
we can handle it all.
We have tax attorneys, we have

855
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,680
Cpas, we have EA's.
We can represent you in front of

856
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,720
the IRS and trust me, I'll have
a lot of fun with it because I

857
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:56,720
will be able to what do we what,
what did we learn in math class,

858
00:47:56,720 --> 00:47:57,520
right?
Show your work.

859
00:47:57,720 --> 00:48:01,040
I can be able to show my work.
I can sit there and if I can, I

860
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,920
can calculate it manually.
I can justify why I'm right and

861
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:10,840
why they're wrong, you know, so.
And that is defy tax.com,

862
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:15,080
everybody DEFI tax.com right?
Does that the best way to reach

863
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:18,880
you dot USDOT US.
Well, thank you for correcting

864
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:20,680
me on that.
Let's get that in the right in

865
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:25,400
the show notes.
Defy tax.usisthereadefytax.com.

866
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,240
Yeah, I don't it, it's, it
doesn't do anything.

867
00:48:28,240 --> 00:48:31,200
I think it's just like a dead
website.

868
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:37,160
Yeah, to you, Yeah, you have to
eventually figure out not get so

869
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:38,840
famous that they won't sell that
to you.

870
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:42,880
Yeah, right, right.
I like I do caravan dot CEO

871
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:46,520
because like people have to go.
I'm sorry.

872
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:48,960
Go ahead.
Until people start listening,

873
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,480
you know, I, it's just like I
can, I can stand up on the wall

874
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:53,720
and talk to it, you know, and
people will listen.

875
00:48:53,720 --> 00:48:58,360
I mean, once, once once they're,
you know, they, they're hurt by

876
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:00,000
whatever is happening, then
they'll listen.

877
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:04,280
Let's come take a while.
Yeah, because they don't look

878
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:06,280
because they're not getting
audited now like you said, they

879
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,320
froze it.
So they're not they it's a non

880
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:10,920
issue.
They don't know anything about

881
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,320
it.
And you know, if it was

882
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,480
something, let's just say my
daughter had bought some crypto.

883
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,600
She does the basic online
TurboTax, you know, the cheapest

884
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:23,720
little thing that they can do
because she's one of those that

885
00:49:24,240 --> 00:49:26,920
doesn't mate, doesn't do a lot
of itemize.

886
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:30,280
So she goes for the simple and
you know, that's probably even

887
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:35,240
worse for for, you know, the
some a lot of the crypto traders

888
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,480
on that stuff.
So this is very good.

889
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:44,920
So if that is so, if you are a
business that is taking payments

890
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:51,360
through crypto or any kind of
compensation through crypto, or

891
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:55,880
if you are buying and selling
crypto, then it is in your

892
00:49:55,880 --> 00:50:00,800
interest to go to D5 tax dot US
to at least start to better

893
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,120
understand what your risks are,
where you are, what you got to

894
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,720
do to circle the wagons to make
sure when the IRS turns this

895
00:50:07,720 --> 00:50:09,840
back on, you're in a good
position.

896
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:16,480
Because you know that there, you
know, I, I right now you just

897
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,640
have given me a fear that
everything that we are

898
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:23,720
experiencing and the, the anchor
that it is putting on our

899
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:29,480
economy's ability to grow is
this college debt that's hanging

900
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:35,320
around so many people's necks
that, you know, the IRS stuff.

901
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:39,400
Yeah, that's going to be a big
issue, harder than the college

902
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,160
debt.
You know, yeah, because then you

903
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:45,040
just, you get bad credit, but
you can still do other stuff.

904
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:48,000
The IRS will come in and garnish
your Inc your wages.

905
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,160
This is only considering the IRS
the federal now.

906
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:54,680
This also hits your state level
and states are a lot more

907
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:59,280
aggressive if you owe taxes.
Oh yeah, yeah, that was a thing.

908
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:04,120
I had to pay the capital gains
on selling my mom's house, like

909
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:09,040
guesstimate on it even before
because the state tax would

910
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:13,600
start calculating and even that
60 days or whatever, I would

911
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:15,080
have had a penalty.
Yeah.

912
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:17,360
I mean, and they don't always
talk to each other because I had

913
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:22,200
a situation, just a basic thing
where I did not know because the

914
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,360
thing was different.
And they did.

915
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,800
By the time they got the notice
to me nine months later, I was

916
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:31,800
already incurring charges on
that, even though they had not

917
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:36,240
sent me anything saying that I
had whatever it was that it was

918
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:37,960
at the time that I needed to do
and.

919
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,600
That's the penalties, right?
It's the penalties that really

920
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:43,440
will hit you because it will
double what you owe in taxes.

921
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,560
And, and then the compounded
interest, especially if you're

922
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:52,160
looking at 3456 years, you know,
it's, I mean, I've seen people

923
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:57,040
who literally have tripled what
their tax liability was, you

924
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:58,680
know, at one point because of
it.

925
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:02,640
And, and again, you know, like
our higher, you know, upper

926
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:06,720
class, like, you know, 1% up
there, you know, I don't know

927
00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:09,400
how much that's going to hurt
them, but a middle class that's

928
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,560
already strained, you know, it's
already hurting.

929
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:16,480
They're, they're going to be the
ones that are going to be in

930
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,840
trouble because they, you know,
they made some money here and

931
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:20,400
there.
And because it's also how are

932
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:25,800
they going to afford having
somebody represent them, you

933
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:29,720
know?
Yeah, OK, Wow.

934
00:52:29,720 --> 00:52:34,280
So my head's buzzing, You know,
all this stuff, I I'm glad I

935
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:39,200
don't have this additional risk
or concern in the way I made my

936
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,360
investments.
But it is something that a lot

937
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,840
of people out there, like almost
nearly as many people that have

938
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,840
invested in the stock market
have invested in crypto.

939
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:52,880
So even whether it's a small
amount or a big amount and you

940
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:58,080
know, it's with all the Wheeling
and dealing and promoting of

941
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:02,880
crypto and NFTS are going right
now where it's like the wild,

942
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:07,760
Wild West, who knows what could
be the thing you you could

943
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:12,720
hopefully you got a very
scalable solution because I have

944
00:53:12,720 --> 00:53:14,960
a feeling that you're going to
be people are going to be

945
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:19,880
banging on your door when the
not so distant future in order

946
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:22,520
to try to, you know, stay out of
IRS jail.

947
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:28,640
So maybe not jail jail, but.
Financially, for sure.

948
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:31,920
Yeah, I hear what you're saying.
It's yeah.

949
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:35,280
And I mean, listen, the IRS
partnered with chain analysis so

950
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:36,920
it makes it easier for them to
trace all.

951
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:44,040
Your assets too.
Yes, yes, there was a somebody

952
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:48,840
was just talking about how you
call the IRS and you can't get

953
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:50,120
through right.
There is no.

954
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:52,240
And I was like, I have, I have
the.

955
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:54,840
Professional hotline so I can
get through but yes I know it.

956
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,640
Yeah.
Well, it's like, you know, when

957
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:02,040
they think it's, you know, they
they cut it in the not even this

958
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,200
current budget, they were
supposed to higher up however

959
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:08,000
many hundreds of agents because
they've attritioned out and just

960
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:09,680
to keep up with the normal
thing.

961
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:15,240
And it was one particular party
doesn't did thought that you

962
00:54:15,240 --> 00:54:19,600
know, IRS is bad and therefore
we shouldn't have any IRS agents

963
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:22,120
to help our taxpayers be able to
navigate this.

964
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:24,480
And so it's even worse than it
was the.

965
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:27,800
IRS needs to stop hugging
everybody so nobody has to call

966
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:29,440
and figure out what the heck
they're sending you.

967
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:32,200
Yeah.
I mean, listen, you know, I've,

968
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:35,160
I've heard it's like, well,
maybe they'll get rid of the

969
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:35,920
IRS.
And I was.

970
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:40,040
Like I, I tell everybody, I
said, listen, as much as I don't

971
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:43,200
like taxes or paying taxes, I
like taxes, right?

972
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:45,840
But paying taxes as much as I
don't like paying taxes.

973
00:54:47,720 --> 00:54:50,200
What do you think?
Pays for our military and I

974
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,120
really would like to keep our
military, right.

975
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:55,560
Like what do you think pays for
all, like, you know, roads on

976
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:57,280
federal lands and things like
that?

977
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,040
Who do you think it's going to
pay, You know, pays for?

978
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:03,080
I mean, we kind of need to pay
taxes in order to, you know,

979
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,320
keep certain things going
because how many countries would

980
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:08,840
be happy if we all of a sudden
said here military, we don't

981
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,600
have money for you, you all, you
know, free go, go.

982
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:12,880
Do you think what's going to
happen?

983
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:16,680
You know, so I the IRS is not
going to go away.

984
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:18,480
It's not going to go away
period.

985
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:21,600
I mean, I'm all about paying the
right amount of taxes.

986
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:25,800
You know, it's not overpaying
it, but the IRS is not going to

987
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:27,440
go away and we can't have it go
away.

988
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:30,840
It's, it's, I mean, listen, if
we could cut all the freaking,

989
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:35,440
you know, congressional and like
all of those salaries, all of

990
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,000
those pays, we would already
have a lot more money.

991
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:43,960
Yeah, just an idea, yeah.
There's a whole lot of that

992
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:47,560
boondoggling going on, paying
$1,000,000 for a plane that will

993
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:49,520
never be used by an American
president.

994
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:52,200
Or the lobbyists, you know,
stuff like all of that.

995
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:54,200
I mean, listen, we would, you
know, we would have a lot.

996
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:57,080
Billion dollars.
Billion dollars, yeah, Yeah.

997
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:03,280
So with that defy tax, if you're
a crypto investor, make sure

998
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:08,600
that you are you got your ducks
ducks in a row, because if it

999
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:11,760
cracked like a duck, it walks
like a duck.

1000
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:18,160
It might be a duck and you can
get ducked out over your IRS

1001
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:22,560
liabilities if you're not if
you're not smart about it, haha,

1002
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:26,760
that was clever.
OK, so all right, Janet, thank

1003
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:29,360
you so much for being a guest on
the Compassionate capitalist

1004
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:33,520
show.
It was enlightening for me and

1005
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:37,320
I'm certain for the folks that
have listened through go to D5

1006
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:42,000
tax dot US and for everything
about me, Karen rands.co or

1007
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:45,200
Cougar rand.com, which is on if
you're watching right now and

1008
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:49,800
you can get access to the ebooks
as well as a just Google Karen

1009
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:51,720
Rands anywhere you can find me
pretty much.

1010
00:56:51,720 --> 00:56:56,080
So with that, everybody onwards
and upwards to have a great day.

1011
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:57,920
Awesome.
Thank you so much.

1012
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:02,240
Bye bye.
Thank you for listening to this

1013
00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:05,120
podcast, The Compassionate
Capitalist Show, brought to you

1014
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:09,920
by Cougar and Capital Holdings
with Carrot Brands as host.

1015
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:16,640
You are encouraged to visit the
website kugarand.com to learn

1016
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:21,080
more about how Karen and her
team help investors and Angel

1017
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:25,040
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1018
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:28,840
And how the Kugarand Capital
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1019
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:32,680
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1020
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,040
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1021
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:39,480
create generational wealth for
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1022
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:43,840
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1023
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:46,960
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1024
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:49,520
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1025
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:52,840
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1026
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:56,800
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1027
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:01,200
Compassionate capitalist
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1028
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,280
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1029
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:07,480
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1030
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:10,880
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1031
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:14,480
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1032
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,800
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1033
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:20,800
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1034
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:25,440
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1035
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:28,880
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1036
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:32,120
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1037
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:34,320
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Inside secrets to Angel

1038
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:37,520
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A step by step strategies to

1039
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:40,600
leverage private equity
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1040
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:43,880
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Thank you for listening.